JFK Assassination Conspiracy and AI Part-1 with Detective Chris Lyons

Tommy Podcast:
One of the things I've been doing for the last month is... I've been starting new law-related podcasts because I realize... between creating written content with AI,

Chris Lyons:
Mm-hmm.

Tommy Podcast:
which we're doing now, and all the video and audio stuff. I mean, you could launch a 1,000 page website in 30 days on a very niche topic, set up AdWords. And I never tell people, oh, AdWords is a strategy. But if your hand's off and you just throw podcast stuff on there once in a while, and it's generating 300 pages every month for you, and you launch with 1,000 because. You went back in time and scraped old articles on that topic, spun them, rewrote them. Hell, maybe you publish a Spanish version. It's getting weird out there. It's like you can have a 10,000 page website in three months. that's got affiliate codes all over it. So, like I'm doing a JFK assassination anniversary series where I've read like 15 books on the topic. And so I'm doing book reviews as part of a huge JFK assassination website. And the Amazon affiliate book links will be on every page. So it'll be like a thousand stories about the JFK assassination with my like 10 book reviews and video. And every page of the site will have Amazon like all those books, affiliate codes. So it's like that's something I already did the work for. And so setting that up, if it's if it's, you know, a passive income stream, it doesn't take that much to maintain it monthly if you've got the expertise to set it up. So it's like I've started leaning towards making content instead of. taking contracts to help people produce their own content. Because I'm like, boy, at the end of the day, I'd rather be the one with a 500 page website on a specific topic that I can sell ads on next year. Yeah, I think I was. And plus clients just can't keep up with the rate of change. I can't go to them every month and say, hey, you know what we should be doing? We should be writing 300 articles a month. They're going to be like, what crack cocaine did you

Chris Lyons:
hahahaha

Tommy Podcast:
smoke this morning? They're going to be like, what are you even talking about? But to me, it's the obvious natural progression. Like, if it's there and I recognize it's there and know how to build it, somebody else is going to build it, and they're going to trounce me in search results on, you know, it's just. It's wild. The content's amazing too. The writing quality, the ability to have it reference quotes and build links to products or links to other articles, I think it's wild. So,

Chris Lyons:
I don't completely

Tommy Podcast:
what if...

Chris Lyons:
understand the AI, you know, there's all these articles that I read about you know, such and such AI, although I'm pretty sure when like the AI, an iPhone, the deep fake thing, whenever that somehow becomes the triangle of death, that's Skynet, I'm pretty sure, and then in like 30 days we're all dead. I just remember Terminator, you know, them making the computer and then robots crushing skulls. So that's when I see all this stuff, that's what I think.

Tommy Podcast:
You're not far off. I mean, you're really not far off. And I don't think the technology is that far off either. I'm astounded by what we can do today that we couldn't do six months ago. And what we could do six months ago was light years ahead of what we could do a year ago. So it's like. I can't be in the business of communicating that to clients and expecting them to keep up. I'm just going to start using it and

Chris Lyons:
Yeah.

Tommy Podcast:
building properties and then I'll let people come in a la carte as they want or if they want to throw down their own project. We're actually proposing it. And this I thought was going to be actually, so here's where it wrinkles into the Florida Investigators Network because you guys are a nonprofit, correct?

Chris Lyons:
Yes.

Tommy Podcast:
So we just got, and I'm guessing you would have resources as well as like know where the resources are that if you ever wanted to, for example, create a series of educational content or even historical, and historical could be true crime, like old Florida cases solved or old Florida cases unsolved. There's grants out there. And so we just got our first grant in New Jersey for our first nonprofit podcast project. And it's a little tiny grant, enthusiastically invited us to come back in October and write for, you know, the big bucks essentially. And they were very

Chris Lyons:
That's great.

Tommy Podcast:
excited. And that's a historical commission. And so I can't help thinking that there have to be, and that figures into AI because there's one thing AI can do. It's identify grants for you. Be like, what are Florida nonprofits that give money to this and that? And then you can have it give you a grant template, a grant. And so that can be what you submit on your first one and keep it simple kind of thing, aim low for dollars. But all the work is basically done. And if you've got an inordinate resource in terms of like the people you could interview or the people you could call because you know their names and you know, maybe they were the head of the state police or maybe they were the lead investigator on this thing back in the 70s. But that all. Or, like I said, any way you could fold in anything that is truly educational, economic development related, like if you made this all about careers in law enforcement or careers in investigations and it had a, you know, maybe you even collaborate then with another nonprofit in Florida that focuses on perhaps like reentry for convicts and. maybe that job market, but just put some kind of good sort of good feeling, good for the community, historic educational, economic development, job training type stuff in and there are grants for all those categories. And then As soon as you bring in the conversation about, for example, something like reentry, then

Chris Lyons:
Hmm.

Tommy Podcast:
there's sponsors like this Selfie Background Check Company who helps people check their own backgrounds in a real way before they go on job interviews and stuff like that so they know what needs to be addressed. Expunge maybe somebody else's name is just like theirs and their frickin' background check's a disaster and they don't even, they never even committed a disorderly person's offense but they've got felony arrests on there somebody was running around with the name same as theirs and somewhere along the line somebody missed the middle initial and that's all it takes.

Chris Lyons:
There is a bad guy that has my... we have the same name and the same date of birth who lives here and I

Tommy Podcast:
Oh,

Chris Lyons:
have gotten...

Tommy Podcast:
even worse.

Chris Lyons:
I have gotten... I've gotten joke bolos sent to me from guys I know more than once. Basically, you know... Why, why, Chris, why? Just turn yourself in, you know, this is gonna have a terrible ending, you know, and

Tommy Podcast:
Hahaha

Chris Lyons:
the thing, the thing that I'm lucky about is, while we share the same name and same date of birth and we're both white males, we don't physically look alike, and he's like a foot taller than me. So I'm...

Tommy Podcast:
Thank goodness.

Chris Lyons:
I'm lucky that way, yeah. If he was a short bald guy,

Tommy Podcast:
Ha ha.

Chris Lyons:
I might be in jail right now.

Tommy Podcast:
Oh, you definitely would have had run-ins by now. That's, I'm sorry, I can't help laughing. Thank God it didn't happen to me. And the worst part is that you share geography. Like that takes so much, that's a huge overlap right there in terms of, oh, that's, it's funny to have friends in law enforcement when your name's out there, or somebody with your exact name's out there getting in trouble and they

Chris Lyons:
Yeah.

Tommy Podcast:
can send it to you meme style.

Chris Lyons:
Yeah,

Tommy Podcast:
Oh, that's

Chris Lyons:
he

Tommy Podcast:
funny.

Chris Lyons:
did something a week or so ago and people were forwarding it to me and they're like, you know, the subject line is like FYI BOLO, which is like beyond lookout, like an alert, and I'm getting a bunch of them. And I'm like, why is everybody so concerned? Because now I'm in, you know, this other unit where I don't really do. these criminal investigations anymore so then after I got the first one I was like okay alright and then here they came you know

Tommy Podcast:
I would love that if I was one of your coworkers. I would

Chris Lyons:
Oh

Tommy Podcast:
truly,

Chris Lyons:
yeah, no, we-

Tommy Podcast:
oh, that would, I'd be hanging signs in the men's room. Ha ha

Chris Lyons:
Yeah,

Tommy Podcast:
ha.

Chris Lyons:
no, we do a lot of stuff like that. There's a guy who just went into my old unit who is also in the service. And he's very proud of his service and I'm proud that he does that for our country. But he never shuts up about it. So what I'm going to do is go to Lowe's and get like a five gallon bucket and put a piece of paper on the side that says every time this person mentions either he's in the army or something about the army, it's like the swear jar, you know? But anytime there's army terminology or army lingo, army stories, army references or something, he has to put... you know money in it and it's going to be a five gallon bucket on the end of his desk. So clearly and I said it would go towards the end of the year holiday party. So one of my friends who's still in there said that they've already earned enough to go to Burns Steakhouse, which is a very nice steakhouse in Tampa, for the whole squad based on the week that he's been in there. He just started in there, he just transferred in.

Tommy Podcast:
That's fantastic. That's funny. It's good to know it's going with a big bucket, then you can get appetizers.

Chris Lyons:
Yeah, yeah, and dessert. They have a dessert room.

Tommy Podcast:
So I did see, I thought of you this week when I saw a news story and I thought if you didn't see it I would share it with you, but did you see the FBI is requesting to double their budget apparently they've been collecting DNA at a faster rate than the Chinese government for the last year. And I think it's related to some of the national databases that. that you can speak to. Did you see that funding request or hear news on that funding request? Not the kind of thing that

Chris Lyons:
No.

Tommy Podcast:
get shouted from the mountaintops. All right, let me show you something quick.

Chris Lyons:
Okay.

Tommy Podcast:
This'll be fun. Make sure you can hear this. And then, this'll be the first time I've done a screen share record. I probably shouldn't say stuff like that. Makes me sound like I've never done a podcast before.

Chris Lyons:
hahahaha

Tommy Podcast:
uh... but it's not usually the jam of most attorneys they're not usually doing reaction videos at okay let's see if the volumes are right Do you hear that? Could you hear that, Chris?

Chris Lyons:
Um... Play it again.

Tommy Podcast:
uh... well let me see do you see the screen

Chris Lyons:
No, I see a man like a newscaster in

Tommy Podcast:
Okay,

Chris Lyons:
a...

Tommy Podcast:
yeah, I want you to hear that. Let me. You're not hearing that audio when I'm playing it?

Chris Lyons:
No, but go

Tommy Podcast:
Shoot.

Chris Lyons:
to the little gear and put the captions on.

Tommy Podcast:
Oh, you're... jeez. Okay, there you go. Yeah, so the FBI is hoovering up DNA at a pace that rivals China and currently owns 21 million samples and counting. One of the reasons I actually found the story especially fascinating is that it details the Byzantine laws which the FBI is using both in loopholes and also explicitly to gain more DNA samples from American citizens at a faster pace than ever before. There's a quote that the FBI aims to nearly double its currently $56 million budget for dealing with the DNA catalog with an additional $53 million for year for 2024. On April 23 statement to Congress, the FBI revealed that the significantly expanded DNA processing requirements of the FBI and they're collecting some 90,000 samples per month. Some of this is based upon federal law where there is a database of the companion DNA index system. that goes across all 50 states and stipulates that originally, just if you were a violent or sexual offender, they were going to take a DNA sample for you to reference in the future, and that eventually was lowered down to the misdemeanor level of crime, and it got to the point where you are now even a person of interest in a crime, or if you've ever been convicted of a crime, you can have your DNA legally obtained. Is that all accurate so far?

Chris Lyons:
It's not clear the vehicle that they're using to obtain those collections because... if it's what's called like we call owed DNA, which means there are certain people by law if they commit certain crimes where they're required to be entered into, they're required to submit a sample of their DNA and the most common example I use is sexual offenders because those offenses are usually all felonies. And it's one of those things where it's structured into the law under the sexual offender, because they have very, very specific guidelines about what type of offense they commit, if they can be within a certain distance of a school, a playground, work in child care type jobs. Sometimes they also have a weird restriction. They can't have a post office box. So, you know, which is kind of Outdated but it's funny. I mean I used to see that but they couldn't because then they didn't want them, you know communicating and Sending or receiving, you know illicit images To a post office box in a way that couldn't be monitored So like you would see in their probation requirements, one of them is no PO box, which I think is hilarious because I think most of the cops on today, if you told them that people were getting porn through the mail, they'd be like, what, I don't understand, what do you mean? What do you mean

Tommy Podcast:
What's?

Chris Lyons:
the phone used to have a cord? This is craziness, you know? So it's just one of those old things that's built in there that we're still still behind on if they're doing it in a way where it's Um... They're

Tommy Podcast:
Well,

Chris Lyons:
catching

Tommy Podcast:
if I may,

Chris Lyons:
me here.

Tommy Podcast:
I think the commentary was that he did mention it started with just basically like violent offenders and sexual offenders. And now it's even people of interest. So I guess he's just claiming that because there is a national shared source that that's the that is de facto the FBI's. You know,

Chris Lyons:
I

Tommy Podcast:
In

Chris Lyons:
have

Tommy Podcast:
the

Chris Lyons:
not heard anything about that because the whole thing about CODIS, which is commonly referred to as the national DNA, the database, the data bank of DNA that's maintained by the FBI is that those people are convicted offenders. So um. I haven't seen anything about that or read any news articles about that because traditionally you can't use just persons of interest or basically, well, we think that this is a really, really bad guy in the future. Maybe it's that they went to court, they were convicted of a certain offense which required their DNA to be collected and then submitted. You know, and they don't specifically use the term CODIS, did they?

Tommy Podcast:
I don't think they did. I think we would have caught that.

Chris Lyons:
Yeah.

Tommy Podcast:
But, oh, I think he's gonna say, hang on, let me see what he's about to say. where even in airports and points of entry, they're hoovering up DNA samples basically through a quasi-legal loophole and expanding this with no recourse, no due process. about the nature of the invasion of privacy. So the impression I got was that it was because they expanded the nature of the people on the list down to like if some local force is collecting a person of interest DNA, they're not really naming the database. They're just saying the FBI wants another 56 million so they can catalog the DNA that's being collected because so much more is being collected is the impression I'm getting from the story. And yeah, and so now they need like 112 million a year just to keep up with the amount of DNA that's being collected because they want their own catalog. That's that's exactly what he said, basically.

Chris Lyons:
Yeah, I'm not familiar with anything like that. So in Florida, basically the DNA laws, so everything is structured under the DNA Act of 1994 federally. That was how everything was structured. And then there's states that are built in with... their own guidelines but you know your and states guidelines can be more stringent than federal guidelines or vice versa but the, let me think here. So in Florida, what they did was is they realized that they weren't going to have the money or the technology to do it. So they kind of gradually stepped it in and they had passed legislation many years ago that said, you know, obviously they went for the biggies first, you know, murder, armed robbery, sexual battery, violent crimes. And then now it's over a period of 20 years now they're up to basically I think all arrested felonies and most arrested misdemeanors. But nowhere am I aware of them putting DNA of just people who are persons of interest in a crime into a database. You know. Collecting DNA from a potential suspect to do a direct comparison to an unknown sample from a crime scene does not put you into CODIS.

Tommy Podcast:
Fair enough Maybe that's why they need more money.

Chris Lyons:
Maybe.

Tommy Podcast:
Maybe that's the gap they're trying to bridge.

Chris Lyons:
I just feel like if either that story is like you're on the razor's edge of breaking news or something in that story is not correct because I feel... When did that broadcast air?

Tommy Podcast:
Within the last week, it had to do with an FBI asking Congress for more money to catalog more, like just an exploding amount of DNA collection. And the word catalog is what was tied to the request.

Chris Lyons:
Yeah, and anytime you have, you know, the FBI asking for money like that, it's going to bring, you know, scrutiny and,

Tommy Podcast:
Well, hot topic. I mean,

Chris Lyons:
of course.

Tommy Podcast:
it is a creepy topic. You know, I want to know exactly what's going on if somebody's getting a ton of money. Especially now they're doing this. What are they doing at the airports where the TSA is collecting biometrics now? Yeah.

Chris Lyons:
Yeah, I just flew and I did not have anything collected from me.

Tommy Podcast:
I don't know that they're starting that experiment in Florida. But I know in DC, if you fly into DC or fly out of DC, there's been a US senator who keeps putting out iPhone videos. He's like, look at this. He's like, this is, and he's an actual senator. All his Instagram is is. getting freaked out by the TSA collecting biometric samples and not displaying the sign that says you can opt out. Like this is not in any way required. And so he's just bitching that they're not putting the signage up that says this isn't like necessary in any way for you to travel. We're just doing it.

Chris Lyons:
So what this person is implying is basically it is, it's consensual but they put it, they make it in a way where it looks like it's just part of the process and you have to do it. Like people don't realize they can opt out of it.

Tommy Podcast:
Exactly. Yeah, he's and that's what he's complained about. I mean, he's like, well, you know, the rule is the rule whether you like it or not. But his issue is that it's not, you know, that's not appropriate. Essentially, it's it becomes not voluntary if people don't realize and you got you got people standing there with badges and you're trying to get home to

Chris Lyons:
Yeah,

Tommy Podcast:
see your sick mom.

Chris Lyons:
it's that implied authority of basically, you know, you essentially have a roadblock set up, the airport gates, and you know, if you want to pass through here, you're going to provide this information, and if you don't, you're not coming through.

Tommy Podcast:
And yeah, I mean, if you're in a big enough hurry, you might do something weird, like take your shoes off and put them through an x-ray machine.

Chris Lyons:
I'm pretty tired of that. Yeah, so shoes, belt... You know, um...

Tommy Podcast:
It's so

Chris Lyons:
It's

Tommy Podcast:
ridiculous.

Chris Lyons:
so weird, too. Yeah,

Tommy Podcast:
Shoes.

Chris Lyons:
it's so ridiculous.

Tommy Podcast:
I love telling people the story of why we take our shoes off. Like what the actual incident was and why today. What billions of people have taken their shoes off at this point because a guy with a pack of matches tried to light his shoe on fire. And granted he had an improvised explosives but he or something. ridiculous but because a guy's, I mean, a dude with matches is not, is not, it's not something to be afraid of long term like this. I just don't, I'm not feeling it. It's, that's the,

Chris Lyons:
No.

Tommy Podcast:
people don't believe me when I tell them that story. I'm like, no, he tried to, he tried to like, like a Wile E. Coyote style,

Chris Lyons:
Yes, yeah.

Tommy Podcast:
full

Chris Lyons:
Light the

Tommy Podcast:
blown

Chris Lyons:
Acme Rocket, yeah.

Tommy Podcast:
cartoon few shoe bomb. It's like,

Chris Lyons:
Yeah,

Tommy Podcast:
That's

Chris Lyons:
I'd be, I know that incident is what kind of spurred a lot of that where, you know, afterwards we'd have to take our shoes off at the airport. I've always kind of thought it was silly, you know. I don't know. It's like you want to be safe when you're flying, of course. But what's the balance between what is realistically possible? and then you know the convenience of Flying and going through I did the last time I just went I had to do the x-ray one where like I imagine myself going to Mars and total recall

Tommy Podcast:
Oh dude.

Chris Lyons:
Yes, yes you know you have to put your hands up and kind of over your head like this and stand on the little two yellow feet and it's they say it's an x-ray machine but I think they're scanning me so they can 3D print me that's my theory

Tommy Podcast:
A bobble. There's going to be bobbleheads of every traveling citizen. See, now there's a use of tax dollars I can get behind. You know, you have something to show for it at the end. I'd be

Chris Lyons:
And

Tommy Podcast:
into that.

Chris Lyons:
it's funny because I, so when I'm working, there's one building I have to go to in particular that is, has a metal detector and restricted points of access and stuff. and but when I'm in there I'm always working so I have all my stuff on so the metal detector goes off but I haven't gone through it in just regular clothes because I had a surgery on my shoulder and they told me I have metal in my shoulder so I've got to go one day when I'm not working and see if that sets off the stupid metal detector because if it doesn't then I'm going to stop telling them that in the airport because they keep putting me in the line it's like me who's flying, who has a titanium knee, because I have a little pin in my shoulder. And it's like, well, I don't know if it's the kind of metal that would set off a metal detector, or is it enough, or what. But yeah, I'm gonna have to go through the one at work one day without all my stuff on in just normal clothes and see if I set off the stupid metal detector.

Tommy Podcast:
Interesting. Yeah, I don't have anything to set off a metal detector. But I feel like I get pulled aside for a wanding all the time. I'm always getting the extra pat down or what have you, even if I get, I do forget my keys and stuff all the time. But. Anyway, I get felt up by the TSA a lot. My point being is I can say specifically, Philadelphia International Airport has 25 gates with biometric boarding process. And that started in January and it took them until like May to roll it out. So I know that's one and I know the senator's freaking out because he's always flying in and

Chris Lyons:
Sure,

Tommy Podcast:
out of

Chris Lyons:
he's

Tommy Podcast:
Washington.

Chris Lyons:
in and out of DC. All the

Tommy Podcast:
Oh,

Chris Lyons:
time.

Tommy Podcast:
I mean it's jobs to raise money. The man has to travel.

Chris Lyons:
Yeah, hey That

Tommy Podcast:
How?

Chris Lyons:
no that's interesting cuz um our airport here in Tampa does not How it does not have that and you know I got to deal with the TSA and I always You know I just try to be Ready and cooperative with this flight. We just had it was super early so the flight left at 6 a.m So that means, you know, we were there early, you know, get parked, get your bags checked, everything and stuff. And there was this one young guy and he wasn't he wasn't yelling in the sense like he was angry. He was just kind of trying to, you know, so you don't have to individually repeat the same thing to every single person. So he was kind of just trying to, you know, so the next 10 or 20. people are so hear him but it's like bro it's like 4 10 in the morning calm down you know

Tommy Podcast:
Yeah, that's not hospitality. There should be a little bit of a hospitality vibe to your travel, I think. Now, jumping back to getting off biometrics and DNA for a second, I know I'm excited about the 60th anniversary of Kennedy's assassination. I know I probably brought it up to you before. But where are you on the scale of, for example? you know, the initial report, the Warren Commission, which I find is oddly, oddly embraced to this day, even though there's been like four subsequent commissions, notable ones like the House Select Committee on Assassinations, that's 1975. And so there's subsequent, far more transparent, far more just substantive good faith investigations on record that say, no, there was almost certainly more than three shots, and there was certainly a conspiracy. But it's odd where you're still kind of fighting this overwhelming tide of, oh, it's well-worn commission report. That's not even the official report anymore. But... Sort of, it's our, were you over it when you were a kid? Because it was so, such a big thing when we were young. Or like, are you like me, where all this stuff when we were little kids about it, like I felt like we were finally owed an explanation. And there was a law in the past about the records being released in 2017. And nobody's followed through on that, which only serves to make me think there's, you know, fuckery afoot.

Chris Lyons:
Oliver Stone made a movie, I think it was called JFK, it had Kevin Costner in it. It's a great movie. I don't know how much of it is accurate and how much of it is Hollywood, but the movie is fantastic.

Tommy Podcast:
Jim Garrison was the

Chris Lyons:
Jim Garrison, yeah, because he...

Tommy Podcast:
DA in New Orleans, and he

Chris Lyons:
Yes.

Tommy Podcast:
had the only attempted prosecution of a conspiracy of the assassination with his much ridiculed and maligned trial of Clay Shaw. But if you read Jim Garrison's book, On the Trail of the Assassins, by Jim Garrison, the thing that stands out to you most is everywhere they went. For example, they'll go to the phone company to get a phone record. And the record they want, that's the only page missing from that account's history. Everywhere they would peek their nose, someone had peeked their nose first and made things disappear in a way that you have to like, how? How could everywhere we go to follow a lead? to get what we think is going to be a smoking gun piece of evidence, somebody's ahead of us and for some reason, literally, it will just be a record disappeared out of a cabinet. But you're done. You're done. That lead is now, and that was Jim Garrison's story overwhelmingly. But his book is great in that it reads like a true crime novel. He talks about his team. It turns out his team. He had a mole on his team and that was the issue. That was why he had a fed on his team that he was unaware of who was keeping other interests ahead of his own investigation. Nothing weird about that though. I mean. But yeah, Jim Garrison, and I would say that movie was probably more accurate than you would think. I'm sure there's embellishments, but I do think he put a lot of focus on the right places, which is, well, you have to if it's a Garrison story. But the New Orleans mob is the only mob in the country that doesn't need permission from the other families for a national hit or to kill another. family head. Like, they don't need permission from anybody to do anything because they were the oldest first mob family in the country. And also because... Lee Oswald had a long history and a ton of contacts in New Orleans of all sorts of descriptions. I mean, he had friends who were like communist sympathizers and pro-Castro. And then he had friends who were like militant right wingers. And he lived and worked in a circle that overlapped with a lot of people from. the movie JFK in terms of Clay Shaw, that office. I want to say who is the private investigator who, but that's a wonderful book. I think you might enjoy it because you probably know way more sort of what that guy's daily would have been like as an investigator, but I found it awesome. And to think it's a true story, it really did read like a fictional true crime, but it's just, his perspective is enlightening and a wonderful book. Yeah, that's a, The Trail of the Assassins by Jim Garrison. The Amazon link will be below.

Chris Lyons:
Yes, yeah. The thing, so with JFK, what I think we talked about this before, if we're the government, we suck at everything. If you had three government workers in a room, they couldn't agree where to go to lunch. The fact that they would be able to keep all the actors and... participants and everybody in a large scale conspiracy cover up silent is to me that's the not feasible part unless you just kill everybody then that part I could believe but The-

Tommy Podcast:
There are 19 witnesses from Dealey Plaza who died in the three years following the assassination. The odds of that were accounted to be something like 200,000 trillion to one. One of the dudes died from a fucking karate chop to the neck. That's his cause of death.

Chris Lyons:
Oh my

Tommy Podcast:
That's

Chris Lyons:
god.

Tommy Podcast:
Yeah, there's a bunch of gunshots. There's but look man. I twirled this thing kudos to your merch department I got this and I was like, what do I need a giant shiny Florida investigators Network coin for I love it I play with it all the time. I'm always flipping it It is this is addictive merch and it's like it weighs like two pounds So I forgive me for being all over the place Awesome. Awesome

Chris Lyons:
Thank

Tommy Podcast:
merch

Chris Lyons:
you.

Tommy Podcast:
hands Florida investigators network shocked me with this because I was like what is that a paperweight? No, I freaking all the time I'm playing with it flipping it around whatever.

Chris Lyons:
So before when you would go to like a training or if you have a case and you'd go out of state or something you would bring patches and you know the detective or

Tommy Podcast:
Bury

Chris Lyons:
you know

Tommy Podcast:
law

Chris Lyons:
officers

Tommy Podcast:
enforcement.

Chris Lyons:
that helped you out you would trade patches and some guys still do that but challenge coins has become a thing. I think it actually probably has like a military origin where it would be. It was started with

Tommy Podcast:
Oh yeah.

Chris Lyons:
the branches of the service and now it's expanded to police work and but really everything. I saw one that was some kind of not something in law enforcement at all. It was like a mental health, you know. guard the guardian type of thing and they had a beautiful challenge coin. But they're just so cool. I have

Tommy Podcast:
Yeah.

Chris Lyons:
a pretty large collection but almost all mine are law enforcement ones. But the firemen have started with it too and they have different ones for different equipment and apparatus and everything. But when we made that we put a lot of time in. and energy and thought into it and we did not want one that just looked cheap or just kind of blended in so we went big on it and I appreciate that. We've gotten a lot of compliments on it.

Tommy Podcast:
Oh, no doubt you have. I'm sure you have. Like I said, it's the list of things I needed to have. A couple like shiny, fancy, heavy coins. Why would I need that? Now I don't know what I would do without it. It's my favorite fidget thing ever. I'll walk out of the house and realize it's in my pocket. I grab it like my keys just to play with. But let me address... quick 180 back to Kennedy, nobody kept anything quiet would be my response, Chris. I mean, there was stinkery afoot from day one. And to have the director of the FBI declare a case closed in less than 24 hours, that alone is enough to put enough stink on something that there were people asking questions and of the Warren Commission report. That information is essentially a narrative. But the 26 supporting volumes of Warren Commission testimony are full of people who contradict the Warren report. It's chock full of people who the Warren report didn't put in their final, the people who said, no, I saw. I saw a guy shooting. And they're like, OK. Thanks, we'll talk to you if we need you. And these people oftentimes were later interviewed. There are the two women who handled the phone, the last phone call of Lee Harvey Oswald. So there is, it's suspected, and it's, The near confirmed, there's all sorts of public record information that says Oswald was CIA. And that's not conspiracy theory fringe. That's no. That's the CIA having to backtrack in a congressional testimony when confronted with the fact that when they said Oswald was in Mexico, no, he was actually here. You know, and when presented with a memo that proves that, CIA folds it up, puts it in his pocket, walks out. That committee doesn't do squat. about it and that's on record congressional record. You've got people who from day one who not many in terms of like the press. So the press comes out and a lot of them are like, oh, we, people heard this. There were shots, all kinds of shots. The first gun that they presented on TV was a Mauser within

Chris Lyons:
It was

Tommy Podcast:
24.

Chris Lyons:
a right. It was a rifle, right? A bolt action.

Tommy Podcast:
It was a bolt action Mauser is the

Chris Lyons:
Yeah.

Tommy Podcast:
first gun that they had on a police report. Within 24 hours that changes to a man-licker Carcano piece of shit. And so the original police report has a Mauser. The second, from there on though, it's a Mannlicher Carcano. And you can see the difference in the pictures. The Mauser has a strap mount beneath it at both mounting points. The Mannlicher Carcano has strap mounts on the side. And so these are the pictures taken by the Dallas PD. So how does that happen? That just doesn't get talked about. But there were people at the time, just to refute, who did. There were Dallas police officers dropping dead by the score for the next decade. One of the chiefs got shot at multiple times. And sometimes it wasn't because they didn't go along after the first day, it was because they were on record saying one thing within the first six hours or 10 hours or 12 hours that didn't fit the narrative that. the FBI threw down within 24 hours basically declaring the case closed. But there are, you know, there are reporters with mysterious deaths along the way who are questioning this. Dorothy Kilgallen, who was one of the most famous women in America. Ernest Hemingway called her the greatest female writer on the planet. And she was also the star of this like game show talk show called What's My Line. And she was one of the few people doing an earnest investigation and she had just flown down to New Orleans and written one of her friends a letter saying I just broke open the whole thing and she's 48 hours later. She's found, you know overdosed by like a hundred pills except she hadn't vomited there were a bunch of weird things about that scene and Dan Rather initially Dan Rather was not was reporting that there were multiple people, and then he became one of the biggest voices for, like, you're a nut if you think anything. I think Dan rather built his career on, on doing what he was told when this story came out, because his initial reporting was, was very contrary to what the official story became, and essentially this was the first building block of his big old career. And by the time you get through this, if, if any of the conspiracies are remotely correct, then yeah, Dan Rather was a straight up shill for a conspiracy. But it wouldn't make him the only one. I mean, the number of really weird deaths around it. And sometimes they're only weird because every other person in their circle died. And you've got

Chris Lyons:
Those

Tommy Podcast:
CIA

Chris Lyons:
are...

Tommy Podcast:
testimony

Chris Lyons:
those are weird.

Tommy Podcast:
of a guy. Well, that's what I'm saying. If every other person in their work group, like FBI guy tells his daughter, listen, whatever happens to me, When I die, it wasn't an accident. And no, I'm going to die by accident. He gets shot in his backyard. It's a hunting accident by a kid who's been hunting those woods for 20-some years. And it's it. The whole, that investigation was, it's a shady story unto itself. But like there's too many FBI guys telling their family, when I die it wasn't an accident. And especially because they were getting subpoenaed in the mid 70s by the House Select Committee on Assassinations. You had five FBI guys die within the course of six months and one of them died by suicide. Two shots to the head while he jumped out of a boat. Two. That's in the coroner's report for the love of God. So I would say it hasn't been quiet. It's just a choice of how much you're willing to dig into the record. And there's evidence of this in how artificial intelligence presents information around the JFK assassination. For example, the CIA has admitted to and apologized for. controlling newsrooms for three decades on this topic. They had to apologize to investigative reporters. Mark Lane, I think, was one of them. But they said, yeah, we were paying reporters to lie about the assassination for decades. You know, and we were controlling newsrooms. So. That's what artificial intelligence has to draw from in terms of an evidence base for it to bring in a consensus and create intelligent information. And so it's been really interesting having it write content about the JFK assassination where it will give weight to the Warren Commission above anything else just because that's been the standard line. And so there's nine times more content sitting out there

Chris Lyons:
Right.

Tommy Podcast:
about it than the House Select Committee on Assassinations. So I'll say things to it like. Research how the CIA controlled the narrative of the JFK assassination Can you figure that into how you weight your commentary when I ask you to do a command it and it basically responds with wow that's fucked up and It's like it's yet. It's chapped GPT is basically like well if that's true. I don't even know how to fix it. It's But it does disclaim and so it'll say crazy things that contradict the Warren Commission, but then it'll say, but everything's a basically a conspiracy theory and there's no reason not to trust the Warren Commission. When why are we talking about the Warren Commission if there's been four subsequent commissions for God's sake? So

Chris Lyons:
I didn't even know that and it's interesting because I definitely think the Warren Commission has the best image in terms of that it was a big investigation and it was congressional and they had the most resources and the most power. I mean I know there have been smaller private ones of journalists and historians. who've dug into it and gotten lots of documents and interviewed people. I've seen some interesting slowdowns too of the Zapruder film and it's only as good as the technology where they just slow it down as much as they can and go frame by frame and that's pretty interesting. I mean the event is not in dispute. It's who, where, what direction, how high. you know, there are certain things about it, there are certain lexicon words that come from that. Grassy Knoll.

Tommy Podcast:
When you need a magic bullet

Chris Lyons:
Yeah.

Tommy Podcast:
in your story, when

Chris Lyons:
Yeah,

Tommy Podcast:
you

Chris Lyons:
Magic

Tommy Podcast:
need the

Chris Lyons:
Bullet.

Tommy Podcast:
word magic in your story, you

Chris Lyons:
Yeah.

Tommy Podcast:
got to preposterous story in a legal environment, is all I'm

Chris Lyons:
Yeah,

Tommy Podcast:
saying.

Chris Lyons:
the magic bullet, the man on the grassy knoll, these terms that everybody knows that it's just when you say it, that's what you're referencing, which is just crazy. Even if you just said something that doesn't have anything to do related with crime. book depository. I mean, to me, that's the first thing. First of all, I don't think there's ever been another book depository anywhere on earth except on that street because I never have heard it. And it's always referenced

Tommy Podcast:
That's funny.

Chris Lyons:
that way when they talk about it. It was just basically a large building where I think the school board kept textbooks.

Tommy Podcast:
Some

Chris Lyons:
But,

Tommy Podcast:
people call that a warehouse.

Chris Lyons:
oh, a warehouse? Book depository.

Tommy Podcast:
So there is, and I'll have to correlate this to one of the titles I read, but there is the whole handling of the Zapruder film. That's a book in itself. And there's a great deal of evidence that was tampered with. In fact, there is a strong argument to be made that The only reason it appears as though he jerked mightily in any direction is because they removed the frames where his head was basically a fountain entirely. And so, eyewitnesses said matter was shooting five feet straight up in the air all over the place. And if you look at Jackie Kennedy, matter was shooting all over the place. But, and you see, you see damage? But the eyewitness testimony speaks to basically an explosion that goes up. And his head goes in and the idea being that is, he just, after his head sort of frankly exploded, then he slumped to the left, but they, they skipped a bunch of stuff and he, it appears though he jerks to the left. Um, and the. I want to say it was Kodak up in New York State, Albany. No, but there's a, there's, and they were doing processing for like YouTube missions and stuff like that. And that's where it got developed. And there were people who were sent there to get it developed on two occasions and there was a chain of custody. that is disrupted in that story. And the people who went the first time didn't know about the people who went the second time. And there are, well, and no, it was openly, it was like a news item. There were frames reversed at one point, and they said that was a processing mistake. But there's a number of far more eloquently done dissertations on just the handling and technology the Kodak location in New York, who usually sent them stuff to process. Was it law enforcement or was it the CIA? And who was their customer, essentially? And yeah, the chain of command, chain of custody is very sort of wacky. Which it shouldn't be, this was kind of a big deal. So you'd think they would have that pretty tight. But that's, in terms of this Zapruder film, the craziest thing I've heard is that there are frames missing. And that's why it looks like he jerks to the left because they weren't gonna show his head fountaining all over the place.

Chris Lyons:
Hmm. It's uh, what's interesting to me it's in that Oliver Stone film is uh, there's like a palm print on the side of the rifle which somebody did processing of it first and Jim Garrison's character in the film references you know that it was processed for latent fingerprints and then and there was nothing. but then, oh wait, no, there's an entire palm print on the other side that was later discovered or discovered by a second examiner or something. That was pretty interesting to me because it's like, how do you miss an entire palm print on a weapon, you know? I mean when you watch that movie at the end you're really like, man, I don't know. I mean it's just so interesting. And Kevin Costner is great in it and how they string everything together and all the shady people that they're re-interviewing and talking to. But then you tie in the... you know, that Jack Ruby comes out of nowhere and, you know, during the perp walk kills Oswald, you know.

Tommy Podcast:
of the purple lock of the most important suspect in the history of the united states in a jailhouse in the in the basement parking lot of a police station is able to glide right in brandish a weapon Get it to the point where it's center mass while he's within two feet of nine different law enforcement officers, and I can't blame him. If none of them were in on it, I'd have been as surprised as anybody if I was them. But it seems odd that he could get from point A to point B and nobody say, look man, this isn't the day for you to be hanging out. Like, how does that not happen? You know, how does that not happen? And then it's, that's in the jailhouse. The other... You know, fun thing that takes place is he doesn't get a lawyer in the jailhouse. He, he protested innocent from the get, calls himself a patsy from the jump and requests a lawyer from the jump. The only phone call he makes is to South Carolina. and it doesn't get connected. The women who worked for the phone company later came out and told their stories and said two men in suits came in, sat down, they said, okay, take the call, and they said, now give it to me, and they never plugged it in. They never connected the call, and that's the testimony of these two women who were operators at the time in the room at the time. Why they chose to say that, they said it, and I think it's tough to argue why, to my knowledge, they didn't get Rich saying it,

Chris Lyons:
Right.

Tommy Podcast:
lives were going to get better by saying something like that. I can tell you, and I'm dying to come up with the senator's name, but it was always the suspicion, or the best theory I've heard frankly is that Oswald was part of a fake defector program. The fake defector program has been confirmed by United States senators on record during interviews to have been run out of South Carolina. defecting to Russia. I have better than top clearance for U-2 stuff. I know where troops are. He had better than top secret clearance related to U-2 spy plane missions. Tells the embassy I'm going to defect. Goes to Russia. Marries a girl within two weeks whose uncle is part of the Russian intelligence community. Shortly thereafter returns to the United States. is welcome with open arms, given clearance. and in no way, shape or form hindered, investigated or disrupted in any way ever having, after having disavowed the United States of America. In fact, he was met in Hoboken, New Jersey upon his return from Russia by a known government go-between who instructed him to go meet a gentleman by the name of George deMorenchild. George deMorenchild. was known CIA, George D'Amorenshield in his late life wrote a letter to George Bush Sr. when he was head of the CIA begging him, I think the quote was, you know, just make this go away. I'm always being followed. But literally got met in Hoboken, New Jersey by somebody with government ties, told to go hang out with another guy with government ties down in Texas. And DeMorenshield was widely, is widely suspected or known to be his handler. DeMorenshield killed himself under wacky circumstances, but that aside, who tells the United States government, I'm out, I'm going to Russia during the Cold War

Chris Lyons:
Right.

Tommy Podcast:
with you two top secret clearance, marrying a Russian girl, coming right back. and I'm welcomed with open arms. I mean, that's as preposterous, preposterous as anything else in the story at face value when you really think about it.